The Challenge

[SIBO]

First Congrats to all who raced today at Kitchener. Great representation by all in all cats.
Now the Challenge... I challenge Coach Chris to a weight loss duel... I was 201.4 when I got home from the race today and its not necessary to carry that much around a race course.
10 lbs in 6 weeks..... if anyone else wants in great. 50.00 a head and the winner takes all. If there is a tie then it carries over until someone looses.
Details can be worked out like weigh ins and stuff, Side bets can be made in support of your favorite coach or teammate to sweaten the pot..... I would like to start it June 18th and finnish on july 30. Everyone is a winner in something like this so Whos in???

[the Superstar]

I'm in and I'm pretty sure Charlie is in.

[SIBO]

Smells like Team Challenge??????????? Why dont we throw down the Gauntlet..... Waiting to hear from our Leader..........

Whats up Chris????????????

[Graydon]

Ok... I'll bite. Let's suppose for a minute that we ignore any potential negative side effects of this proposal. Logistically then, I wonder if the winner of previously described challenge should not be declared based on total absolute body mass lost, but on relative body mass loss.

Example... it may be much easier for Sibo to lose 10lbs than the Superstar to lose 10lbs, considering the inherent body size dimensions they are starting with. If Sibo loses 5% of his body mass (~4.5kg) but Superstar loses 6% (which may be only 3.8kg if my geuss is close), in absolute terms Sibo is the champ, but relative loss shows Superstar put in a greater effort.

[Chris Helwig]

Alright I am in. I agree with Graydon it has to be a percentage of your starting weight, not total weight loss. Obviously Sibo and I have an advantage if it was total weight loss. Here are the rules I propose:

Contest starts this Friday June 16th.
We weigh in every Friday for 6 weeks so the contest ends on July 28th
$50 per person winner takes all.
Winner is declared as the biggest percentage lost of starting weight on June 16th
Weigh ins are on the honour system
Also on the honour system is ensuring your weight loss is safe and sustainable. By this I mean no no carb or water restricted diets allowed.
Every Friday you post your weight and a brief overview of your nutrition for the week i.e. did you eat things you shouldn't have etc.
Everyone gives me their $50 in the next couple weeks so I can promptly pay the winner.

Declare yourself in by no later than Friday evening.

Chris

[JaJa]

This is a great idea. You can count me in. Finally the mountains will become my friends.

This will be easy money curly cakes.

JaJa

[Chris Helwig]

Confirmed are:

Sibo
Chris
Ja Ja

Tony confirm that you are in.

[the Superstar]

I was kidding.

[SIBO]

So who wants to do the %'s now that Graydon has turned an easy score for me or Chris into a Science experiment???? One good back waxing and I would of had 5 lbs gone.......

[Chris Helwig]

Percentages is the only equitable way to do it.

Who else is in? Jellybean Teacher you in?

Chris

[Graydon]

Now before you all go starving yourselves, who dares to really make this interesting. Since all of this is based on the premise that less body mass equals you going faster up hills, any good scientist would say we also need a measure of uphill riding ability.

Ergo, I propose before each of you start your crash diets, you cruise on over to the Kilworth hill climb, and time your best effort up the hill. Then, do your 6-weeks on the South Beach, Horse Milk, or whatever diet you choose. After your final weigh-in, let's see how fast the you-version-lite can go up Kilworth. Perhaps the real winner of the challenge should be a cumulative score based on the pre/post body mass and hill climb differentials?

Any takers?

[SIBO]

Keep the rules and regs comming you cant scare me. I can fill my bike with lead then go up in 7 minutes then drink my horse milk for 6 weeks,jetison the bikes lead supply then do my usual 52 second climb up killworth...............

[Chris Helwig]

I would argue Kilworth has less to do with weight and more to do with your CP 1 min power (critical power for 1 minute) The hill is to short for weight to be a huge factor. I was 4th or 5th one place behind Charlie a couple years ago on that climb. No way I can climb as well as Charlie, but the hill is short enough if you are a good sprinter with good max power you can still put in a good time.

Now back to the contest. I will once again stress the honour system of the healthy sustainable weight loss in the contest. No South Beach diets, no low carb or no carb diets, no diuretics, no water restriction etc.

I look at it as even if I lose my $50 but drop 3-5 lbs it will be well worth the money. The key factor for me is it keeps me accountable by having to post my weight and nasty nutrition choices every Friday for the www to see.

Chris

[the Superstar]

I could easily win this by renouncing my Christian upbringing, converting to Judaism and making the proper adjustments...

[Throopenator]

here's an idea for a side bet...who will be the first to take the advice of the all knowledgable Superstar and jump on the kelonics bandwagon? I'm taking Sibo...

[SIBO]

Thanks Throopinator:
I still think the first weighin should be witnessed at the same location..and the final weighin at the same location. What about on Ol Reliable at Chris's? sometime Friday? Or take Ol Reliable to All Seasons for Friday and guys can go there??????

[JaJa]

I will have to weight myself here in buttf*** Alberta, as to keep this on the up and up and I will have one of my "new best riding" friends verify the initial and final numbers.

Or I can fly out there on Friday, what ever works for you guys, as we all know it is all about Chris. lol

JaJa

[SIBO]

Well I would be fine with a digital video of the butt f*** weigh in with your buddy, time and date stamp with a paper with fridays date on it beside the scale,
What do you think Chris?????

[Graydon]

The hill is to short for weight to be a huge factor.

Exactly.

;)

[Chris Helwig]

To clarify doing the Kilworth hill just once in a hill climb like the regional hill climb I would suggest that max power and CP1minute would be at least as big a factor as body weight. Yet if you had a circuit race up that climb like KW where you did it 17 times then weight becomes a huge factor. Where in a single effort up the climb I can be close to Charlie, in a race with numerous climbs he would be off the front I would at best be barely hanging on for dear life. In races like Effingham, Mosport and KW the multiple climbs bring weight in as a major factor.

[Graydon]

I agree. But let me draw out the point I was trying to make a little clearer.

Going up a hill (once or more than once), gravity will always play a role trying to slow you down. While Chris may be able to do well vs. Charlie going up the hill once, I would argue that Chris minus x-amount of body mass would go up the hill even faster.

Example:
Chris (200lbs) going uphill puts out 1 min at 700 W = 30km/hr
Charlie(160lbs) going uphill puts out 1 min at 600 W = 30km/hr

So here you could argue that body weight is not a factor, since Chris clearly climbs as fast as Charlie. But the flipside is that you could also argue that the extra 100W Chris has to put out, if he had to do that multiple times, would really hurt him. At submax values, imagine it being 300W vs. 400W. 17x at 400W up a climb is certainly going to tax you more than at 300W, especially if your threshold is around 300W.

Now then, we could still imagine the Kilworth scenario:

Chris (180lbs) going uphill putting out 1 min at 700 W = 33km/hr????

The trick is not to compare Chris vs. Charlie, but rather Chris pre-diet vs. Chris post-diet. And since we know the two variables that will affect climbing performance (power and weight), I would argue that a pre/post test looking at how fast Chris goes up Kilworth once would be still be meaningful and useful data for this little challenge.

Of course, and here is the million dollar question, who thinks that anyone taking the weight loss challenge doesn't see their max power drop in proportion to the amount weight loss? Example, if you lose 10lbs but also lose 50W off your max, where does that leave you? Going up Kilworth faster, slower, or the same as you did before you starved yourself for 6-weeks?

There is a cool site for those inclined to play around with the numbers a little further: www.analyticcycling.com (http://www.analyticcycling.com)

G.

[Chris Helwig]

Your point is fair enough, but the key clarification is I am not going to starve myself, but lose the weight in a healthy manner. I think you would agree I could do to lose a bit of weight, my goal is to lose 6 lbs in the 6 weeks. This is a healthy sustainable amount. The plan is to run a 600 calorie deficit daily to lose the 6 lbs. With some longish rides, cutting my wine consumption back to 2 small glasses a week, eating low GI carbs and minimizing treats and cheats I don't think my power will decrease in the least. :)

[Chris Helwig]

I would also like to add that my 1:03 time up Kilworth in the regional hill climb was the most painful minute of my life. This alone is reason enough to stay away from that climb. I hate kilos on the track, which is basically like that climb.

Second point is in the absence of a power meter I would argue it is very difficult to compare a pre and post diet hillclimb. The psychology would dictate that on the final test you would naturally push a little bit harder so the data would be flawed. If SRM wants to sponsor our contest with Dura Ace SRM's then we would have something to compare.

[Chuck Norris]

Minus 600 calories/day alone will require some serious willpower. Throw in some riding, and you will outpace 1lb/week. Assuming a pound is roughly 3500 calories, and an hour of riding burns 700, a lousy 5 hour week will net you 2 pounds/week easily. Difficult to maintain that sort of deficit for an extended period of time without losing motivation, strength, or sanity. Speaking from experience, the first 3 weeks are the most dramatic. The pounds just cascade off your body. It gets progressively harder as you near an optimum weight (whatever the hell that is).

Chris, as far as a controlled test on a local hill goes - I'll be bringing a Powertap tomorrow. If you want to whip out to do a quick set of climbs at a steady output, no problem. We can save your ride and do a future apples to apples comparison between Chunky Style Chris and Diet Chris Light.

I'll only charge a nominal percentage of your winnings :D

[SIBO]

So Chuck..... with your calculations could Chris leave in a Curly Cake or 2 in his diet regieme?????

[Chuck Norris]

As long as he nets out to -500 calories/day, he should hit his targets quickly. I question the nutritional value of a Curly Cake though. We all know that a balanced diet consists of the 4 basic food groups: Doritos, Beer, Butter Chicken with naan, and Roundhouse Kicks to the Head.

[Chris Helwig]

Chuck,

I am aiming for a 600 calorie deficit factoring in calories burned while riding. My Balance Log program factors in calories burned during exercise. On ride days a 600 calorie deficit isn't super tough to do, I find it harder on days off.

I should be good for the powertap, I am pretty confident I will not lose any power with my nutritional changes.

See you tomorrow for an hour of pain.

Chris

[JaJa]

Well me only chance in this is the pure no eating diet. Small amounts of calories each day and huge volumes of riding in the mountains.

The positive thing is at least the bears will leave me alone.

JaJa

[SIBO]

Hi Chris... was wondering if you could mark the start and stop for the Killworth hill climb.. I assume you are talking about the little river rd piece up the hill??? Chuck Norris could mark it with blood or something....

thanks. Sibo

[Chris Helwig]

Sibo,

I am not going to do the Graydon Kilworth experiment and I rarely ride out that way.

I am doing the Thursday 36km ITT, we could use a time trial as a pre and post challenge indicator. Let me know if you are game.

Chris

[JaJa]

I will mark off a section of the mountain, and ride it on Friday and again when this is over, to prove Graydon's theory.

Also not too boost but I will lose 12 pounds easy in this game, and still ride faster!

JaJa

[SIBO]

Great, Ill go and do that also

[SIBO]

Well JaJa , Chris and I both missed the TT so you do the ride and prove or disprove the point. I will start a new thread for the Weight Loss Game.

Sibo

[Wanna B]

I've been talking about getting my weight down, now with money on the line maybe I should jump in.

As long as my target can be self imposed, and we're doing it on the honour system (I won't cheat), I'm in if the following is OK.

Current weight - 187.5 #
Target weight - 182 #

I have to the end of July to reach target right?

Can whoever is playing Commissaire on this, assuming it's Sensei, let me know if I'm within the rules on the above?

[SIBO]

well Wanna Be it will cost you 50.00 and 4 kit kat chunkies to Helwig .....